Mitten suggestions

[lost_patrol]

The good ones are very good.  I have problems with circulatory problems in my hands (due to freezing them long ago, so they freeze easily now) and the best mitts out there are CF issue.  With those, my hands don't freeze.

But most of the time, what I wear, due to availability and reasonable price, is leather chopper mitts from a workwear store, with wool liner mitts from roadside craft shops in Newfoundland and Labrador.  Not fancy, but they're almost as warm as the CF surplus mitts, and the price is right.

[Moondog55]

I am re-opening this thread to ask a comparison question.
How do the US ECWS pattern mittens compare to other mittens and mitten systems available ?? I ask because I just managed to get a brand new pair for a very affordable price but when I examine them closely I have the impression that the insulation isn't thick enough for the advertised -60Celcius rating ( it is a given that liners are needed ) but are the knitted wool gloves the US used to use plus this mitten really good enough to go down to those levels ( BTW I get really cold hands )

[cousin Pete]

Hello Moondog55:  What does the US ECWS mitt system include(ie. shell and liner)?  I use the Empire Canvas True North mitts.  Here is a link to check them out: 
http://www.empirecanvasworks.com/truenorthmitts.htm

If your set has a shell and removable liner and if you can wear some thin liner gloves underneath them, I am assuming they would do the job just fine.  If the military uses them for extreme cold weather, I would take them at face value.  I supposed that you'll won't know for sure until you try them out.  Welcome to the site!

Take care,
Cousin Pete

[Moondog55]

thanks for the welcome
These are a big shell, oversized and with a single layer 50oz polyester quilting on the palm and a double layer 5oz quilted liner on the back, this liner  is detachable for drying.

Never having had to dress for minus 60 before I was wondering how much was too much.
I can fit my normal winter mittens system inside these shells.

Australian winters seldom get below -18C

[snowdog]

Has anyone out there had any experience with Camuks from Steger Mukluks?  Because we often run into slush on top the ice, I've been thinking about the Camuks because they have the waterproof lower shoe part.  But, do your feet sweat more because of the waterproofing?  Or would you suggest one of the other types of mukluks they make?

[Moondog55]

I was going to ask these questions myself. how much insulation is needed for feet and is it better to use lots of layers of socks or to use a heavier thicker liner??

[Kevinkinney]

I'd try making my own.....

http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8934&highlight=mittens

Kevin.

[Moondog55]

Thanks  Kevin.
I had read that thread, the   difficulty I saw was finding leather here in Oz,  a suitable  soft supple tan not being readilly available.
I have the US shells now, the price was too good not to buy.



I can sew the extra liners I need (or may need) mittens are really quite easy with a good pattern, but I am still wondering if it is better to ere on tha side of caution and use a thicker liner.

Advice on layering would be appreciated, my thinkng so far is to use one layer of felted wool serge plus a thin, single sided polyester pile on the palm and double the insulation on the back of the hand using Polartec 300 or similar, would it be a good idea to also use a leather palm on the liner mitten?? Assuming I can find a suitable leather.
is using wool felt as a liner actually a good idea or does the extended drying time make wool a second best option for liners?

The nylon quilted polyester lining on the US Army mitten makes it very easy to slide a liner in and out and quick release harness would be my only real modification of these.
Rgards
Ted M

[Kevinkinney]

Hi Ted,

I wouldn't use leather for the liner palms. It will detract from your dexterity. Keep it simple, and use a double layer of polartec all around.

Cheers,

Kevin

[cousin Pete]

Hello snowdog:  I have a pair of Steger Arctics and a pair of Steger Camuks.  On the colder trip that I did this winter, I used the camuks during the day while out and about and I used the arctics around the site at night.  Your feet will sweat with the camuks.  I use two insoles in the both muks.  I bought them the same size so that I could exchange the liners and insoles in both of them.  At night, I hung the liners and insoles up to dry in the hot tent.  I think that the camuks are a modern day equivalent of water proof seal skin muks.  If you go with the camuks, make sure that you purchase an extra pair of liners and insoles so that as the one pair gets damp you can dry out the damp pair and replace them with dry liners and insoles.  I hope that this helps.

Take care,
Cousin Pete

[HOOP]

Ahem - we are on a mitten thread here!       But there was a question on the Camucks in this thread, so thanks CP for purchasing and field testing the Steger Camucks!     I think your test confirms the intuitive prediction we would have, that anything "waterproof" in winter will not breathe, and hence one will experience moisture build up from within.  That is OK with thick liners.  My Sorels have major daily moisture build up too.  The solution as Pete has described, is to have two liners and dry one pair each night.  Hot tents make this very easy!      If cold camping with fire, I rig a drying tripod with cross beam sticks near the fire lashed with string, and dry them that way.    If you have a hanging loop on your liners, and a mini biner or bushcraft mini withie, you can easily hook 'em on the rack.   You can also prop them on sticks.   But keep an eye on them so as not to burn them!      Or on a short trip of 2-3 days, I switch out the liners and leave them wet.  On a longer term trip you gotta dry them unless the temps are relatively mild.

I do believe that by having my wool pants tucked inside, that they wick some moisture up and out of the boots.   No empirical evidence, just gut feel.   Of course the milder it gets, where one would need the Camuks, as in CP's meltdown trip, the higher the relative humidity, and this wicking effect might not be as effective.

Now, back to mittens......

[Moondog55]

OK thanx Kevin, I'll take your advice and use Polar-tec all round.

As I have this wool already hot washed and felted down I may just have to make up some work mittens for spliting firewood and such while I am at the sewing machine.
I intend to  shape the mitten liners, making the back of the liner wider and longer than the palm and unless there is advice to  he contrary that will be by a centimeter in width and about 8cm in length